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	<title>Comments on: AP: &#8220;We&#8217;re Done&#8221; Answering Questions About Fair Use &amp; Our Rights System</title>
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	<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151</link>
	<description>Danny Sullivan&#039;s Personal Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:44:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Alan Bleiweiss</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-7426</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Bleiweiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-7426</guid>
		<description>Danny, 

I really admire your willingness to go the extra mile with such an archaic 19th century industry organization.  It never surprises me when a behemoth of business crosses over into the realm of total arrogance.  

My latest concerns with the print news industry as a whole got a  lot more intense this past week when President Obama came out in favor of at least considering a news industry bailout.  

Of course, he said they&#039;d have to become nonprofits if they want a gov&#039;t handout, which is a superb requirement, because that won&#039;t ever happen in our lifetime.  

Bottom line though is that it&#039;s really all about how willing intransigent parties are to let go of that greed based grip so they can actually learn how to make a reasonable and realistic profit. But that would require an actual open dialogue with the likes of Danny Sullivan...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danny, </p>
<p>I really admire your willingness to go the extra mile with such an archaic 19th century industry organization.  It never surprises me when a behemoth of business crosses over into the realm of total arrogance.  </p>
<p>My latest concerns with the print news industry as a whole got a  lot more intense this past week when President Obama came out in favor of at least considering a news industry bailout.  </p>
<p>Of course, he said they&#8217;d have to become nonprofits if they want a gov&#8217;t handout, which is a superb requirement, because that won&#8217;t ever happen in our lifetime.  </p>
<p>Bottom line though is that it&#8217;s really all about how willing intransigent parties are to let go of that greed based grip so they can actually learn how to make a reasonable and realistic profit. But that would require an actual open dialogue with the likes of Danny Sullivan&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David Gerard</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4431</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gerard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4431</guid>
		<description>speaking out on the news business, stated today that “the Internet free access model is clearly malfunctioning, as I don’t make enough money from it. We have to educate people that free doesn’t work, particularly for us.”

Media commentators fear for the future of investigative journalism. “How can we hold governments’ feet to the fire without money to pay our great reporters? Where would you get your recycled wire feeds, your Garfield cartoons?”

Publishers hold that it is natural for readers to pay what advertisers once did, just as cows have to make up the difference out of their own pockets when the price of milk falls. &quot;Without the AP, journalism would not exist! Just as without pimps, sex would never have been invented.&quot;

Newspapers have suffered badly since the collapse of their previous business model of selling readers to advertisers on a local monopoly basis. The replacement models appear to involve phlogiston, caloric and luminiferous aether.

Publishers have also explored the notion of getting Google to pay its “fair share” for so parasitically leading people to newspapers’ websites. The Wikimedia Foundation promptly started billing journalists for their reprints from Wikipedia. “We feel this is completely unfair,” said Tom Curley of the Associated Press, “as real news stories spring forth from the heads of accredited reporters in an immaculate creation from nothingness. My preciousss.” Maurice Jarre was unavailable for comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>speaking out on the news business, stated today that “the Internet free access model is clearly malfunctioning, as I don’t make enough money from it. We have to educate people that free doesn’t work, particularly for us.”</p>
<p>Media commentators fear for the future of investigative journalism. “How can we hold governments’ feet to the fire without money to pay our great reporters? Where would you get your recycled wire feeds, your Garfield cartoons?”</p>
<p>Publishers hold that it is natural for readers to pay what advertisers once did, just as cows have to make up the difference out of their own pockets when the price of milk falls. &#8220;Without the AP, journalism would not exist! Just as without pimps, sex would never have been invented.&#8221;</p>
<p>Newspapers have suffered badly since the collapse of their previous business model of selling readers to advertisers on a local monopoly basis. The replacement models appear to involve phlogiston, caloric and luminiferous aether.</p>
<p>Publishers have also explored the notion of getting Google to pay its “fair share” for so parasitically leading people to newspapers’ websites. The Wikimedia Foundation promptly started billing journalists for their reprints from Wikipedia. “We feel this is completely unfair,” said Tom Curley of the Associated Press, “as real news stories spring forth from the heads of accredited reporters in an immaculate creation from nothingness. My preciousss.” Maurice Jarre was unavailable for comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley J. Fikes</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4425</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley J. Fikes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4425</guid>
		<description>Top-level executives in news companies are usually the most removed from reality. All they know how to do is sell ads around the content. Anything that disrupts this familiar pattern and requires actual thinking is painful to them. These are the people who need to go to save their companies, but they&#039;re not going to fire themselves. They&#039;ll just lawyer up, buy magic beans, and hang on until retirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Top-level executives in news companies are usually the most removed from reality. All they know how to do is sell ads around the content. Anything that disrupts this familiar pattern and requires actual thinking is painful to them. These are the people who need to go to save their companies, but they&#8217;re not going to fire themselves. They&#8217;ll just lawyer up, buy magic beans, and hang on until retirement.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat B</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4418</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4418</guid>
		<description>The AP might want to read up on things like &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;micro channel architecture&lt;/a&gt;.  Creating a technical solution where everyone has to bow at your altar will annoy enough people that an alternative will appear.  This alternative will make you irrelevant.  You will eventually be marginalized in your core business because everyone will just go around you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The AP might want to read up on things like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Channel_architecture" rel="nofollow">micro channel architecture</a>.  Creating a technical solution where everyone has to bow at your altar will annoy enough people that an alternative will appear.  This alternative will make you irrelevant.  You will eventually be marginalized in your core business because everyone will just go around you.</p>
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		<title>By: Clyde Smith</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4405</link>
		<dc:creator>Clyde Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4405</guid>
		<description>I think you did a fine job of showing that the AP is full of it.

I hate to sound like a kid but they&#039;re just so stupid, it makes me want to see them dead now rather than later.

But I guess we&#039;ll have to watch them die the death of a thousand cuts.

Hopefully that will hurt a lot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you did a fine job of showing that the AP is full of it.</p>
<p>I hate to sound like a kid but they&#8217;re just so stupid, it makes me want to see them dead now rather than later.</p>
<p>But I guess we&#8217;ll have to watch them die the death of a thousand cuts.</p>
<p>Hopefully that will hurt a lot!</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4403</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4403</guid>
		<description>If they are done talking that&#039;s just fine. I&#039;m done linking to them, and reading their material. Fortunately there are plenty of other news sources on the Internet. 

One day they will wake up and realize that they have alienated Internet users, their one viable market in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they are done talking that&#8217;s just fine. I&#8217;m done linking to them, and reading their material. Fortunately there are plenty of other news sources on the Internet. </p>
<p>One day they will wake up and realize that they have alienated Internet users, their one viable market in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Brock Meeks</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4401</link>
		<dc:creator>Brock Meeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 03:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4401</guid>
		<description>So noted, Danny, on the point about the &quot;etc., etc.&quot; in the list above.  And I never wanted to imply that you were being at all &quot;lazy,&quot; I was just noting how some journalists (ok, far too many) fall in the lazy shorthand of making it sound like &quot;many experts&quot; were talked to when in actuality, maybe two were interviewed.  That was an example, not an indictment of your work on this piece.  

So, let&#039;s leave all behind now--it&#039;s really inconsequential.   For the AP to simply say, &quot;we&#039;re done&quot; giving interviews is beyond the pale.  How many of their editors would allow AP reporters to say, &quot;well, boss, I couldn&#039;t get the interview because, well, they said, &#039;they&#039;re done.&#039;&quot; No AP reporter I know would accept such a bullshit answer and I&#039;m pleased to see you haven&#039;t either.  

I&#039;m in your corner on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So noted, Danny, on the point about the &#8220;etc., etc.&#8221; in the list above.  And I never wanted to imply that you were being at all &#8220;lazy,&#8221; I was just noting how some journalists (ok, far too many) fall in the lazy shorthand of making it sound like &#8220;many experts&#8221; were talked to when in actuality, maybe two were interviewed.  That was an example, not an indictment of your work on this piece.  </p>
<p>So, let&#8217;s leave all behind now&#8211;it&#8217;s really inconsequential.   For the AP to simply say, &#8220;we&#8217;re done&#8221; giving interviews is beyond the pale.  How many of their editors would allow AP reporters to say, &#8220;well, boss, I couldn&#8217;t get the interview because, well, they said, &#8216;they&#8217;re done.&#8217;&#8221; No AP reporter I know would accept such a bullshit answer and I&#8217;m pleased to see you haven&#8217;t either.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m in your corner on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Stock</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4400</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Stock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4400</guid>
		<description>AP&#039;s decision not to chat with you -- in particular -- is more evidence of how *utterly* out of touch they are with &quot;the web.&quot; If the debate were about archiving, they wouldn&#039;t know enough to take a call from Brewster Kahle; if about clutter avoidance, they&#039;d ignore Matt Cutts. Somehow, they seem *more* clueless about the fundamentals of this space with every passing day...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AP&#8217;s decision not to chat with you &#8212; in particular &#8212; is more evidence of how *utterly* out of touch they are with &#8220;the web.&#8221; If the debate were about archiving, they wouldn&#8217;t know enough to take a call from Brewster Kahle; if about clutter avoidance, they&#8217;d ignore Matt Cutts. Somehow, they seem *more* clueless about the fundamentals of this space with every passing day&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4393</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 00:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4393</guid>
		<description>Brock, to clarify further, damn right I&#039;m trying to ding the AP in this post. Here&#039;s some more context.

Back in May, when they AP was raising issues about its relations with Google, I asked several times to speak with someone at the AP about this.

Google and search engines are my beat. I have covered them for years, longer than any other journalist I know. That&#039;s one reason why other journalists, including the AP&#039;s own reporters, have long used me as a source for their stories.

I have an extensive reach among those who care about all matters of search. Despite this, no AP execs were available. None. They were done talking about these matters, I was told.

Skip forward to this month, and they&#039;re talking again. The AP doesn&#039;t reach out to me, as it clearly did with other publications. OK -- I&#039;ll reach out to them once again. And I did on July 23. No answer. None. Not a &quot;we&#039;re done talking to the press.&quot; Not a &quot;we don&#039;t want to talk to you in particular.&quot; Nothing.

Yesterday, I reached out to two separate AP executives including Jane Seagrave who has been commenting. No answer.

Today, I tried again, new route -- this time an actual phone call back to Paul, who apparently ignored my email of July 23 and, I can only assume, the forwarded emails he probably got from the two AP execs I emailed. And this time, it&#039;s the &quot;we&#039;re done talking thing.&quot;

Yes, I&#039;ve been trying to do my legwork in talking to them, over and above, I&#039;d say. It&#039;s not that they don&#039;t have time to talk to me or others on these topics. It&#039;s that they&#039;ve said all they want to say at this point, especially because when you get into the technical details, they don&#039;t seem to have all the answers together. And that&#039;s very worrying from an organization that&#039;s supposed to be out there on behalf of its member publications trying to bring forward a new era and future for journalism.

The AP doesn&#039;t have to talk to me. They&#039;re within their rights not to, and I can totally understand that they might feel it&#039;s not productive -- that I have an agenda -- that I&#039;m not worth the time, etc. But then say that, not this &quot;we&#039;re done&quot; talking spin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brock, to clarify further, damn right I&#8217;m trying to ding the AP in this post. Here&#8217;s some more context.</p>
<p>Back in May, when they AP was raising issues about its relations with Google, I asked several times to speak with someone at the AP about this.</p>
<p>Google and search engines are my beat. I have covered them for years, longer than any other journalist I know. That&#8217;s one reason why other journalists, including the AP&#8217;s own reporters, have long used me as a source for their stories.</p>
<p>I have an extensive reach among those who care about all matters of search. Despite this, no AP execs were available. None. They were done talking about these matters, I was told.</p>
<p>Skip forward to this month, and they&#8217;re talking again. The AP doesn&#8217;t reach out to me, as it clearly did with other publications. OK &#8212; I&#8217;ll reach out to them once again. And I did on July 23. No answer. None. Not a &#8220;we&#8217;re done talking to the press.&#8221; Not a &#8220;we don&#8217;t want to talk to you in particular.&#8221; Nothing.</p>
<p>Yesterday, I reached out to two separate AP executives including Jane Seagrave who has been commenting. No answer.</p>
<p>Today, I tried again, new route &#8212; this time an actual phone call back to Paul, who apparently ignored my email of July 23 and, I can only assume, the forwarded emails he probably got from the two AP execs I emailed. And this time, it&#8217;s the &#8220;we&#8217;re done talking thing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, I&#8217;ve been trying to do my legwork in talking to them, over and above, I&#8217;d say. It&#8217;s not that they don&#8217;t have time to talk to me or others on these topics. It&#8217;s that they&#8217;ve said all they want to say at this point, especially because when you get into the technical details, they don&#8217;t seem to have all the answers together. And that&#8217;s very worrying from an organization that&#8217;s supposed to be out there on behalf of its member publications trying to bring forward a new era and future for journalism.</p>
<p>The AP doesn&#8217;t have to talk to me. They&#8217;re within their rights not to, and I can totally understand that they might feel it&#8217;s not productive &#8212; that I have an agenda &#8212; that I&#8217;m not worth the time, etc. But then say that, not this &#8220;we&#8217;re done&#8221; talking spin.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://daggle.com/ap-were-done-1151/comment-page-1#comment-4392</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 00:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daggle.com/?p=1151#comment-4392</guid>
		<description>No, Brock -- the etc. etc. part was not mine. That&#039;s what Paul from the AP sent. He gave me a list and put those two at the end, the etc. etc. part. 

I&#039;m definitely trying not to be lazy. I&#039;ve tried repeatedly to talk to the AP, to get the full story. They don&#039;t want to talk to me, as best I can tell, and are using &quot;we&#039;ve talked enough&quot; as an excuse. My view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Brock &#8212; the etc. etc. part was not mine. That&#8217;s what Paul from the AP sent. He gave me a list and put those two at the end, the etc. etc. part. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely trying not to be lazy. I&#8217;ve tried repeatedly to talk to the AP, to get the full story. They don&#8217;t want to talk to me, as best I can tell, and are using &#8220;we&#8217;ve talked enough&#8221; as an excuse. My view.</p>
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