Fleckman, thanks again for your comments. I appreciate hearing your perspective and you taking the time to share it.

Danny,
I can see that both of us have a love for our country. Each with different views yet humanity shines brightly in the both of us.
I can say we are more secure than we were prior to 9/11. We have not had a single attack on our own soil since then. Did we have to go into Iraq? That will be debated for decades. Now I can give my opinion on that; I can tell you that how we did go into Iraq without a clear strategy was a mistake.
What I nor anyone else can say is what did President Bush and members of congress see in intelligence briefings both at the start and ongoing. None of us will know for sure for at least a decade or two if what was done was the right course of action.
Yes, many people died on both sides. Millions more have experienced liberty, freedom, and the ability to do for themselves what they have always wanted to do but never could. There is a complete lack in the media of reporting all the positive outcomes that are occurring in Iraq to this day.
Having said that, war is the very last thing that should be commenced. That is exactly what was done after numerous and repeated sanctions from the UN to Iraq. Yes, diplomacy and discussion should be exercised exhaustively and it was.
I am glad that you appreciate the definition of patriotism. It was offered to show that too many times that word is misunderstood and overused. It does not include, IMHO, the bravery of speaking out. That is a right given to all of us – the freedom of speech, so no bravery is required. As you put it in your own words you are speaking out against individuals and not country.
That is yours and my right. I served in the military to ensure that right remained intact. You, by exercising that right, ensured that it remains strong and central to being a patriotic American.
Until the human race realizes that any form of violence is destructive to the very essence of humanity, the retard of its very growth, then we can expect violence to continue.
Humans continue to evolve towards a day when all can live in peace in harmony. The key to moving forward is the awareness of power that lies within each individual to reach that goal. It does not lie within any government, any military force, any terrorist organization, or any religion.
It lies within the individual soul of every human being waiting.
I’ve greatly enjoyed our discussion and for me I will let it go naturally. Feel free to comment – I have said what I needed to and I look forward to reading more on your blogs.
Best now and always.

Fleckman, thanks again for your comments.
As you said, so she leaves out a few words, and I’m upset she didn’t qualify her statement more? Fair enough when you look at the Obama quote. I didn’t read it as him suggesting that this is the only thing we are doing there but rather that some of this does happen as part of war effort there — but that these things are seen more heavily than others. I honestly didn’t see him saying this to be critical of our troops. I think no American politician is stupid enough to deliberately do that these days. Indeed, one lesson that I think America in general has learned post-Vietnam is that you don’t criticize your soldiers — you criticize their leaders who are making the decisions.
As with Palin, I’m sure he could have qualified that better. I guess I was more upset with Palin because last week, she seemed to be talking this way multiple times. It wasn’t a slip of the tongue — it seemed to be an active campaign to talk about “real” versus “fake” American.
Anyway, this was an interesting article about Obama’s quote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081400950.html
As you’ll see, Bush himself is concerned about the impression and the casualties.
I don’t think our response to terrorism is simply to kill civilians. But a lot of them are getting killed because of it — and in particular because of our actions in Iraq, which I didn’t see as an anti-terrorism effort at all. People disagree on this, of course. But that’s my view.
I think our response has largely been far too heavily on military actions. I supported going into Afghanistan, and if we’d focused there rather than extending into Iraq, we might have more resources to do a better job in Afghanistan.
More important, political efforts can be as important in any “war on terror” as actual military ones. People around the world do indeed remember a lot of what America has done. I’ve lived outside the US and encountered this. And yes, I’ve also encountered plenty of non-Americans who aren’t that supportive of the US but who enjoy freedom because especially after World War II, we stepped up. Like you, it’s easy for me to feel some of that resentment, especially when you see the attitudes expressed in the non-US media. Most ordinary people I’ve met, almost without exception, have never expressed any anti-American views.
I think you saw a huge outpouring of support for the US after September 11. It was stunning. Living in Britain, I had people calling me and talking to me and telling me how sorry they were for what happened, and no one close to me fortunately was killed or injured. Newspapers around the globe supported us.
The problem is, what you did in the past doesn’t get you a free pass for anything. Nor does a great tragedy. Going into Iraq in the way we did, with the mess that’s there now, cost us a huge amount of our support around the world.
That’s not a reflection on the troops serving there, OK? It’s a reflection on the leaders who sent them there without a real reason to do so and without a real plan for what to do after taking over. My view — you certainly may disagree that it was a correct move.
I agree — the troop surge seems to have helped, and it would be nice to see Obama clearly say he was wrong about that rather than dodge it. But it would also be nice to see McCain say that maybe he was wrong about us going in the first place. Many soldiers have died in Iraq. Many civilians killed by many sides, as well. Huge sums of American money, that could have been better spent building up American, has been lost. And I can’t say that we’re more secure now than we were before, sorry. No reflection on the troops trying to defend our security — a reflection on their leaders who sent them to the wrong place on the wrong mission.
In terms of Obama wanting bigger government — that’s an age old debate in the US, more or less. Given that we’ve just spent 1 trillion of taxpayer money to bail out banks and even the Republicans are talking about how more government regulation is needed, I can’t see these things as so black and white, Republican or Democratic, pro or anti-American. Certainly no one wants to pay more taxes — American or whatever nationality you care to name.
I appreciate your definition of patriotism. I’d just ask that you consider that defense of your country includes the bravery of speaking out when your country’s leaders are heading in the wrong direction, speaking out when your country is doing something wrong. Countries, just like people, are not perfect. They make mistakes.
Slavery, internment of Japanese-Americans in World War II, failing to protect the lands of Native Americans are just some of the mistakes the United States has made, and patriotic Americans have worked to rectify such mistakes or prevent them from happening again, out of their love for their country.

Danny,
I really appreciate the fact that you are Pro-American.
I did not nor will I question your patriotism or your Americanism. What I did question was the fact that you commented on Palin’s statement which she did apologize for but no where could I find your Pro American stature criticizing what Obama said about our troops. No where.
To further state in your latest comment that our response to terrorism is to kill civilians is well IMHO, completely intellectually dishonest.
Maybe people like Obama who completely dishonor patriotism by making disgusting statements about our troops implying that they are actually purposefully killing civilians is the reason for the way the world views us this way. The media has a lot of blame on them as well too I’m afraid.
Perhaps the world forgot how America is the most generous nation in the world.
Perhaps the world forgot just how many advancements in medicine, technology, science, energy America has given the world.
Perhaps the world forgot just how many Americans died for their freedom over the decades.
Perhaps if the media and Obama quit trying to make absurd statements about America – and start telling the world how great America is and how much we have done for the world then the world would be a better place and have a true view of us.
Maybe I should introduce you to the young lady who watched her mother raped and beaten to death by the Hussein brothers. Or perhaps you’d like to meet the son of the mother who was buried up to her head and stoned to death in Afghanistan because she let her veil fall off her head.
Better yet I let you meet the wife of my colleague who was killed along with 3,000 others on Sept 11, 2001.
You should know sir that I served in the military and not once did I actively seek out or actually kill a civilian. Nor did any of my brothers and sisters in the military – EVER.
What I did was serve my country and every American. For your right to freedom of choice and speech – which clearly the junior Senator from Illinois is seeking to limit dramatically.
Senator McCain was the one who pushed for exactly what you say in your comment – more troops and a more targeted plan of execution. Gen. Petraeus delivered that and in fact the surge is working tremendously and MILLIONS of civilians are enjoying freedom that they NEVER thought possible in their lifetimes.
I do appreciate your blog and your comments. Your freedom to write and expand upon what your thinking shows that my service was not in vain.
I suggest that if your upset about Palin’s statement you should be equally upset at the fact that Obama wants bigger government and more oppressive taxes. Please spare me the 95% of all Americans will get a tax cut fairy tale.
I ask you when did bigger government and more taxes benefit any American?
I leave you with the definition of Patriotism: devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty.
In the end after this election or any other I will continue to honor your rights and freedoms as an American no matter what your beliefs are.
After all isn’t that the most patriotic thing an American can do?
Honor the right to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness.
Sincerely,
Peter

Fleckman, thanks for your comment, I appreciate you taking the time.
I’m writing from my personal perspective of being an American and how I feel about politicians — any politicians of any party — trying to tell me if I’m “pro” or “anti” American. I don’t need to be an “American expert” to write about that. Being being an American who is offended by the notion that were I live or my beliefs can cause my patriotism to be questioned is enough.
In terms of that quote — yes, it is a problem for America when our response to fighting terrorism can be seen by many around the world as simply killing innocent civilians.
How we are perceived by the outside world has a huge impact on our security. We do kill civilians — that’s a fact any politician will tell you. And when that happens, we lose allies in places where we need support. Suggesting that we go about our military actions with enough troops and in a manner that is much more targeted makes plenty of sense.
As for Comedy Central, it’s not my only news source but sadly — it can actually be more accurate than some others — say Fox News.
Again, I do appreciate your comments, and I know there will be people who take my post as anti-McCain or anti-Palin. It’s not. It’s anti-anyone who wants to tell me that they’ll define whether I (or you or anyone) is “American” enough. I was born an American, love my country and just feel insulted to see campaigning that tries to imply I or others aren’t somehow worthy of calling ourselves Americans.

Okay,
So did Palin not include a couple of words? Yes.
It’s interesting you made no comment on your blog when Obama made this statement:
“Now you have narco drug lords who are helping to finance the Taliban, so we’ve got to get the job done there, and that requires us to have enough troops that we are not just air raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there,’’
Where’s your real Americanism on that disgusting statement?
Additionally – using Comedy Central as a valid source? Come on that’s like using MSNBC for actual news. It’s empty and sad at best.
Well I guess your being true the the meaning of Daggle huh – “To trail, so as to wet or befoul; to make wet and limp; to moisten.”
You certainly did your job sir. My advice – stick to search.

I’m pro-American. I don’t want morons running it any more.

I don’t think there’s much of a chance that John McCain will read your post :.)

Great post, I came from one of those “Small Towns” and I can tell you that they are not always “pro-america”.
I also find it a bit ironic that as I got to the bottom of this post there was a McCain/Palin campaign ad to the right of your post (a skyscraper ad).

I’m glad you did get this off your chest and I’m sure you speak for a lot of frustrated AMERICANS. Rock on! Kudos!